Just Us with Liz and Kere Podcast - The Pilot: Part 1

Liz Nolley: 00:00:10

Hey, everybody. I'm Liz Nolley. I'm Keri Thomas. And welcome to the Just Us podcast, a place for Black women navigating corporate spaces.

Kere Thomas: 00:00:22

Liz, why are we doing a podcast?

Liz Nolley: 00:00:26

I'm glad you asked, Keri. No, seriously. While we say that Just Us is a podcast for Black women navigating corporate spaces, the rest of y'all are welcome to tune in too. But what we're going to be doing in every single episode, we're going to be offering high-performing corporate professionals.

Liz Nolley: 00:00:46

A teachable moment where we'll help them develop additional skills needed to succeed as they climb the corporate ladder. We're going to then have some fun and talk about some of our favorite top 10 lists together and have some fun with that. And then we're going to read your letters from our viewers and listeners and podcast subscribers. So hit that subscribe button, shameless plug, and do some live on-air coaching and give them feedback. And then we're going to close out every segment with my favorite segment, probably, that we call Boss It or Toss It. I'm ready for that. I am too. So let's get right into it with today's Teachable Moment, which is focused on building your personal board of directors. So Carrie, do you know what a personal board of directors is when I say that?

Kere Thomas: 00:01:41

I think so. It's like you get your people who support you professionally as mentors, sponsors, other coaches that surround you and kind of help you develop what you want to do with your career.

Liz Nolley: 00:02:03

Absolutely. Think about it as, you know, that girlfriend's group chat, okay, but for your career. So let's jump right into it. So let me ask you all.

Liz Nolley: 00:02:16

When it comes to your career, who do you turn to for support?

Kere Thomas: 00:02:22

You.

Liz Nolley: 00:02:24

You. But we all need that network, that same type of support system that we have when we talk in relationships and recipes and group travel and community service or whatever it is that we're into. We need that same kind of support network to help us advance in our careers.

And so I call it a board of directors, a personal board of directors. But this is an informal team of people who can actually help you develop and advance in your career by either helping you to become aware and close blind spots, develop new skills, or even help send new opportunities your way.

And so here are the key players, and we're going to take a close look at all of them one at a time.

Liz Nolley: 00:03:15

And we're going to start with... The trainer. Now, what is a trainer? A trainer is somebody who focuses on helping you to develop a new skill set, right? And most of us are probably well-trained, right? So, you know, that's... black women, we're the most degreed population in the country, arguably the world, right? So very few of us probably need help finding trainers, right? Because these are college professors, these are certificate programs, because we know, you know, some of y'all got like Alphabet City after your names. You got every kind of certification and everything like that. So most of us are good in this area when it comes to finding training, right? So we'll check that one off the box right away, right? So the second person on the team is your mentor. And most of us... volunteer in the community and we've served as mentors, right? We speak at career days, we volunteer through different organizations that we might belong in. So we're used to this concept of mentorship in our community. But for corporate purposes, a mentor is somebody on the same journey as you. But maybe they're a little bit further down the line, right? So they've walked where you want to go and you can learn from their experience, right? And they can help you kind of be aware of the landmines and what the road ahead is going to look like and how to navigate that.

Kere Thomas: 00:04:47

So Liz, I think most people are familiar with mentorship because in corporate, they have these mentorship programs that assign you a mentor. It could be someone. For your board of directors, that's a personal connection that you have, right? Or is it just a professional connection?

Liz Nolley: 00:05:10

That's a great question. So sometimes it will be. And sometimes it could be a former boss or a current boss, and that you've kind of personally connected with on some level. I've had a... It's interesting. Earlier in my career, I worked on Wall Street at one of the major brokerage houses and I was assigned a mentor who was an Asian American woman. She and I had literally nothing in common other than we both worked there. We both worked at the same company and, you know, we were both women. That's it. You know, but like we came from completely different worlds and things of that nature. And it illuminated for me how difficult it is for us to find mentors who look like us. Yeah, because sometimes it's if you look up the corporate ladder, we're just not there in a lot of these organizations. But that's not to say that you have to have a Black woman as a mentor, but it does help to find somebody, to your point, that you can personally connect with who can... identify with your journey and vice versa. Yeah.

Kere Thomas: 00:06:34

I mean, I think it's okay to have other mentors too in your work experience, but for your board of directors, like this group that you are pulling together to support you, I think should be more personal and someone that you can relate to.

Liz Nolley: 00:06:52

100 percent. Like I had I've had black male mentors. I've had white male mentors. I've had white women mentors and they've been phenomenal resources for me because they saw something in me. in terms of the future potential that I represented to the organization. And they were willing to avail themselves of me, you know, to me so that I could learn those unspoken rules of corporate America. So your mentor doesn't have to look like you, but having that kind of personal connection— because as your mentorship relationship grows, you're going to want to become more vulnerable, more open, and more transparent with them. You're hoping that they will do the same. To kind of really pull back the curtain and help you grow.

Liz Nolley: 00:07:44

So the next person on the team on your board of directors is a coach. And I'll be very honest— early in my career, I thought only like CEOs, C-level executives, super rich people had coaches. Right. In corporate America, because honestly, those are the only people that I saw had who had coaches like literally every CEO that I have been an advisor to in my career, whether I was on that. consulting side of the table or on the employee side of the table, every single one of them, without exception, had a coach. And so I just naturally assumed coaches were for other people, like regular run-of-the-mill employees like myself at the time didn't have coaches.

Liz Nolley: 00:08:37

The more that I learned was, you know what? The best athletes in the world have coaches. Michael Jordan had coaches. Serena Williams got coaches. You know, so why shouldn't we have coaches? We all need coaches. And the role of a coach is a little bit different because a coach helps you to show up as the best version of yourself on whatever walk you're walking. So, and there's literally a coach for everything. There are weight loss coaches, there are spiritual coaches, and, you know, I have my own coaching practice. Shameless plug. Where I hope high-achieving corporate women align their careers with their purpose versus doing stuff that is expected of them, but doing stuff that really brings them joy and a sense of purpose and meaning. To their journey. So there's literally a coach for like everything, like career coaches, everything. So I have become a big evangelist for coaching, not just because I have my own coaching practice, but because of my personal journey.

Liz Nolley: 00:09:42

Especially the first coach I ever worked with was so transformational for me. I was like, everybody needs to know about the magic that a coach can bring to you to help you get from point A to point B in your journey. So have you worked with coaches, Kere? I'm just curious.

Kere Thomas: 00:10:02

I have. I've had coaching within my career at different points.

Kere Thomas: 00:10:10

And I think, like, what would you say would be the benefits of coaching?

Kere Thomas: 00:10:18

Why would you direct someone to coaching?

Liz Nolley: 00:10:22

The biggest thing is a coach can see a blind spot that you have long before you can. A lot of times, in an objective way, than even like a mentor can. Because a mentor has that personal connection with you, a lot of times, which is why you both continue to invest in that relationship. A coach is paid to see those blind spots, to look around the corner, and to give you the roadmap from getting from point A to point B. And we all need truth tellers in our lives, right?

Kere Thomas: 00:10:58

Like, don't feed me the story. Tell me straight what I need to work on. I mean, make it constructive.

Kere Thomas: 00:11:10

Be that type of person, but like, tell me where my gaps are or what I can do to improve. And I have so many opinions on this that we won't even get into, but I think it's a benefit to have that coaching perspective if you are trying to build a career in corporate America.

Liz Nolley: 00:11:34

100% agree. I think you make a great point about coachability though. I have a lot of clients that book a first meeting and the coaching is only going to work if you're willing to do the work and if you're open and receptive to what that coach has to say. I mean, I always think about Magic Johnson and I don't know, I'm probably dating myself by this reference, but do you remember when Magic Johnson first came into the NBA and he would do interviews.

Kere Thomas: 00:12:11

Oh, yeah, I remember. Okay.

Liz Nolley: 00:12:13

And I love you, Magic, but it was a little bit painful on the ears to watch. Absolutely. And, you know, as an English major and the child of two educators, professional educators, like, it was just like, today we'd call it cringeworthy or whatever. He was not a great interview. But to his credit, as Magic progressed through his NBA career with an eye towards his post-NBA career as a businessman, a business leader, he got himself... A speech coach. Yeah. And was very transparent about it. I remember reading about it in, I want to say, it was a Sports Illustrated article years and years and years ago. And she helped him polish his communication skills in a way that was still authentic to magic. He's still magic, that amazing personality that he has. He's like a walking smile.

Liz Nolley: 00:13:14

You know, he's always so positive and things of that nature. So he didn't lose that. She just helped him show up as the best version of himself.

Kere Thomas: 00:13:24

Yeah, I saw him a couple of years ago. He came to speak at an event and he sounded like a businessman and very motivational, very clear, drastically different from when he first came in the league.

Liz Nolley: 00:13:43

And that's coaching. That's coaching. That's coaching. I mean, he's been an athlete, a top-tier premier athlete his entire life. He didn't need public speaking training, right? He knew how to speak publicly. He just needed some coaching to show up as the best version of himself. So it worked for Magic, worked for Michael Jordan, worked for Serena. I know it's worked for me. I know it'll work for you. So I'm all, yay, coaching. And so the last... member of the team is a sponsor. And for a lot of us as black women, the sponsor is something that one, we might not even know about. And two, if we do know about it, we have no idea of how to go about finding a sponsor, how it all works and things of that nature. But a sponsor basically is somebody who has a seat at the table. and can speak for you when you're not in the room. Long time ago, I worked for a colleague of mine, used to call it the slanted A.

Liz Nolley: 00:14:46

I was privy to how this process sort of worked. And what they did was they would have these roundtable discussions where all of the people managers.

Liz Nolley: 00:14:56

They would go into a conference room around performance review time. And basically your boss would have to lobby for you. And that outcome, how that conversation went, determined your raise, your promotion, your whatever.

Liz Nolley: 00:15:16

Yeah, and I found out that it wasn't just something unique to the Slanted A, it was something that a lot of companies do. And what was really important to that was your ability to manage what they called the conversation. And the conversation is basically your personal brand on those corporate streets inside that company that you work for. So what's the conversation around Kere? And then the people around the table would either go, oh, Kere. She's great. She worked with my person on this project, did a fantastic job. Oh, yeah, I like Kere. She has great energy, always positive, always has something positive to say, et cetera, et cetera. Oh, okay, so... So what do we think? Promotion, well, is she ready for a promotion? Well, maybe she is, maybe she isn't, but she had a great year, so let's give her a raise at the higher end of the scale or however that situation goes, right? What you don't want the conversation to be is...

Liz Nolley: 00:16:16

How about that Kere? Kere. Now, which one is she? I don't know her. I don't know her. I don't know her. I haven't heard anything from her. I haven't heard.

Kere Thomas: 00:16:24

Yeah. Yeah.

Liz Nolley: 00:16:25

It's like having no credit, right? Like you don't want, you don't want, you don't want that. And, and that's almost just as bad, if not worse than how's that Carrie? Nah, I'm not crazy about her. Or she's too emotional or too this—something, not ready, right? Like you can come back from not ready once you know that's what the conversation is. But I don't know her as a harder hill to climb, right? So you want your sponsors to be in that room managing the conversation in your favor. But the tricky part about sponsorship is you might have sponsors that are, you know, your boss, your mentor, it could be a former coach, it could be a client, it could be a colleague, but a lot of times it's somebody who doesn't even know you. Yeah. Like, you and I both belong to a sorority. We won't say which one.

Liz Nolley: 00:17:23

Kere Thomas: 00:18:37

The best effect of having a sponsor is when you meet... someone and they say, 'Oh, I've heard about you.' Exactly. Then you know that somebody is working for you. In a good way. In a good way. Now, if they say, 'Oh, I've heard about you,' I can't help you there.

Liz Nolley: 00:19:03

A different kind of gift, and maybe we'll address that in a future podcast. Maybe we'll address that kind of a gift. But yeah, you're absolutely right. You want the conversation to be in your favor. And a leader that I deeply respect that we both know, who has served as my sponsor, once told me that you never know who's watching. So that's why personal branding and learning how to manage your personal brand is so important.

Liz Nolley: 00:19:42

So that's what you need on your personal board of directors, guys. You need trainer, you need a mentor or two, you need coaches and you need sponsors. And so I put it out to the audience rhetorically, 'Who's on your team? Who's on your team?

Kere Thomas: 00:20:01

I have to think about who's on my team.'

Liz Nolley: 00:20:03

I'm on your team.

Kere Thomas: 00:20:05

You definitely are on my team.

Liz Nolley: 00:20:07

And you're on my team. You can't get rid of me. You can never get rid of me.

Liz Nolley: 00:20:16

And that's today's Teachable Moment, guys. We're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back.

Liz Nolley: 00:20:33

You've climbed the ladder, checked all the boxes, yet still something's missing. You crave more than just success. You want significance, a career aligned with your purpose. I help corporate women bridge the gap between what they do and who they are. Through transformational coaching, I guide you to gain clarity, align your work with your calling, and lead with confidence and purpose.

Liz Nolley: 00:21:02

So whether you're ready for a shift, a breakthrough, or a new beginning, you don't have to navigate it alone. Purpose discovery and activation, leadership and professional development, mentoring and coaching, all designed for high achieving women ready to do meaningful work. I'm Liz, the Purpose Coach. Let's align your ambition with your assignment. Book your free discovery call today at LizThePurposeCoach . com.

Kere Thomas: 00:21:40

So I think one of the things that we should do as part of this podcast is give people some relatable content as advice on their corporate careers.

Kere Thomas: 00:21:58

So I was thinking about teamwork and I was like, maybe we should do like a top 10 on teamwork.

Liz Nolley: 00:22:09

Love it. Love it. Love it.

Kere Thomas: 00:22:10

And I think. The best way to make it relatable is to give it in a way that people can understand it. And I think my opinion is we should talk about teamwork through the eyes of Wu-Tang.

Liz Nolley: 00:22:28

Wu-Tang. Wu-Tang. Wu-Tang. I love it.

Kere Thomas

[: 00:22:33

Liz Nolley: 00:22:40

Wait, wait, wait. How do the young people go? Like this? You can tell I have 20-something-year-old daughters at home.

Kere Thomas: 00:22:46

So yes, let's do it. So number one is about branding. Branding the team. So for Wu, they have the infamous Wu-Tang logo.

Kere Thomas: 00:23:02

They use as both part of the group and individually. Like they are never really separated from the team. You always know who's on the team.

Liz Nolley: 00:23:15

100%. It's like a family crest. I love it. And it's universal. I mean, you got a Wu-Tang. Who got a Wu-Tang t-shirt at home? Right.

Kere Thomas: 00:23:26

I have the W and of course I have the music. So that would be my number one lesson from Wu-Tang: brand the team.

Liz Nolley

[: 00:23:36

Kere Thomas: 00:23:49

I'm not saying everybody needs to go out and like create a logo for your like. For your podcast? For your podcast. For your personal team. But I think like having everybody know they're on the team and everybody having a role on the team is important.

Liz Nolley: 00:24:05

100%.

Kere Thomas

:: 24:06

So I also think that your personal brand builds your company brand. And so, for example, you have Method Man. He has built himself as a career. Oh, sorry. I'm sorry. I got distracted. My bad. And even if you think about all of them, a couple of them have built their personal brand.

Kere Thomas: 00:24:31

It's never divorce from Wu-Tang. Like you say ODB, you still know it's ODB, but he's also a part of Wu-Tang.

Liz Nolley: 00:24:42

Yeah, everybody knows they go back like babies and pacifiers.

Kere Thomas: 00:24:45

Yeah, so if you come out as a group.

Kere Thomas: 00:24:48

So your team and one of you is in the spotlight. It only builds up the rest of the team.

Liz Nolley: 00:24:56

I love that. I love that because, you know, like way back in the day, musically, you know, you'd have the front person and then they are always going solo and that's what breaks them down. And that's what breaks up the band. But corporate America is the same way, right? Like if you're on a team with people and you've got, you know, somebody trying to go solo while everybody else is trying to stay together and achieve whatever the team is setting out to achieve, that causes a problem.

Kere Thomas: 00:25:27

But if you have a project and you get a little bit of the spotlight and you thank the team, then the next team member gets a little bit of the spotlight. It shouldn't be like that. You're butting heads. One person is vying for more spotlight than the other because, when I'm successful, my team is going to be successful.

Liz Nolley: 00:25:49

100%. I had a CEO who I supported, and he said that he believed that a measure of his own personal success was how many people he grooms through his organization that actually leave his team and go on to greater heights and do bigger and better things, right? Because it benefits both his brand and theirs.

Kere Thomas: 00:26:13

Which leads me to number three: the company brand builds the personal brand. If your teammate is successful... and the company brand is now being highlighted or receiving accolades. Guess what? That gives you a leg up because now you have the support of that name behind you as well. 100%. You're on the team. You contributed that success. The company's success is also your success.

Liz Nolley: 00:26:49

Yeah, I think in corporate settings too, it's easy to forget. It's a mutual win-win, right? Like your personal brand helps the company, but the company's brand can also help your personal brand.

Kere Thomas: 00:27:00

Yeah, I think a lot of people go into it thinking like it has to be a battle or a race or a challenge when it could actually be a supportive environment for everybody. A hundred percent. If you put the company brand in mind, as well as how does this improve my personal brand? And I think Wu-Tang does a good job of doing that. Of course, there's members of Wu-Tang that...

Kere Thomas: 00:27:29

We know that they are part of the group, but we haven't really seen anything from them or their music might not have done as well. But guess what? They're part of Wu-Tang. You see them in the street, you're going to be like... That's a boost to their personal brand. Yeah, 100%. Love it. So the next one, number four, originality matters.

Kere Thomas: 00:27:55

And every one of them is original in their own way. Some more than others. Some more than others. They each brought a unique thing to the group.

Kere Thomas: 00:28:08

You know, RZA brings like his musical genius.

Kere Thomas: 00:28:13

We just love meth because he's just...

Liz Nolley: 00:28:18

He just brings er things to er body. No disrespect, Mrs. Meth. But thank you for your service and thank you for sharing him with us.

Kere Thomas: 00:28:24

Thank you for sharing him with the world. The gifts that he gives.

Kere Thomas: 00:28:28

But there's also like, you know, Ghostface Killer. He has like a unique aspect and each of their music has like a different vibe to it. So when they are individually talking or individually producing music, it's a different style. But then when you put it all together, it kind of like fits. So the originality kind of builds up the team.

Liz Nolley: 00:28:55

Yeah, and I love how they all give each other space to bring their authentic selves into the magic that is Wu-Tang Clan.

Kere Thomas: 00:29:07

Yeah. And I love this one too.

Kere Thomas: 00:29:12

So they all have like three or four different aliases, if you think about it, right? And I think in terms of teamwork, there's power in sub-branding. I love that. I love that. Dirk McGurk. So you have aliases that give you sort of like a way to adapt in different situations. So, you know, there's...

Kere Thomas: 00:29:43

There's Raekwon, the chef. There's Iceman. There's Tony Stark. You know, there's four different personalities for each of them. Same with meth. What was his, the one that used to Johnny Blaze and all of that stuff. So I think a lot of them have. A few sub-brands, but you know, it also kind of like helps build the capacity for the team so that they can be adaptable in different situations.

Liz Nolley: 00:30:17

I love that. I love that because I think it's such an important message in corporate settings about adaptability. And, you know, because I have... I have Liz when we're just kicking it. Yes. And then I have Liz at work. And then I have Liz at work when I'm running the meeting versus Liz at work. When I'm a participant in the meeting, Liz at work, if I'm leading a team, Liz at work, just being a member of the team. And you have to be adaptable. And bring all those different flavors of yourself to the fore. And so I think that what Wu-Tang teaches us about sub-branding is a great tangible reminder of the fact that, you know, I mean, I know we're not talking about them, but, you know, you can be Beyonce and Sasha Fierce. You know what I mean? Exactly. You can still tap into those different energies and it's all honoring who you are and being in a time and place appropriate way.

Kere Thomas: 00:31:16

And I don't think it's inauthentic to be some of those different, to have your sub-brand. I don't. I think like... I think you need that in corporate America, especially as Black women. You need that. And it's a part of who you are. And I think sometimes we get that confused with, am I being fake or that kind of stuff? Playing the game. No. Everybody needs a sub-brand because you have to show up differently in different situations.

Liz Nolley: 00:31:45

100%. It's a tool tool in the toolkit weapon in the arsenal right. It's not playing the game. If you're going to play any game, you want to play to win and you want to have the right equipment. Right? And it's just putting that one— putting that tool in your toolbox.

Kere Thomas: 00:32:00

I agree. Number six: the power of the collective.

Kere Thomas: 00:32:07

So we know there's strength in numbers. And Wu-Tang Clan has a lot of numbers. Yes, they do. There's like 78 of them jokers. I don't know.

Kere Thomas: 00:32:18

So, but that is...That's a great thing because you don't always need to have everybody on the stage. Everybody could come on the stage after the speech, but you can rotate who's giving the speech. You know what I'm saying? So it's powerful to have as many people as you can working for the benefit of the team.

Liz Nolley: 00:32:45

100%. 100%. And, you know, there's an old expression, 'many hands make light work.' Yes. You know, so, and I think a lot of times, you know, okay, I'll say it about us. Some of us... Hot take. Like to control stuff and we have trouble letting some stuff go and delegating, asking for help and that kind of thing. But when you have a team that... you can rely on, like the Wu-Tang Clan relies on one another, then you shouldn't hesitate to literally or figuratively pass the mic to a team member and spread it around. There's room for everybody.

Kere Thomas: 00:33:25

Spread it around. And at some point, some people can be out front again. Some people can really like not being.

Kere Thomas: 00:33:37

You don't have to be the senior person. You can grow within that team. So even for Wu-Tang Clan, they came out with a handful of people at first, and then you started to see them. add more and more people to the program. And I think that's an important part of teamwork. Growth and development. Probably my favorite one of the top 10. We had number seven. Number seven. Okay. Please play your position.

Kere Thomas: 00:34:14

You got to know when to be the one out front and when to fall back and support.

Liz Nolley: 00:34:24

Wait, wait, wait. For the hard of hearing and the hearing impaired, this is my girl face. And I know y'all know what I mean when I say that. Girl, girl.

Liz Nolley: 00:34:35

So preach a sermon, Reverend Carrie.

Kere Thomas: 00:34:39

Yes. So not everybody needs to be in charge. The saying, 'too many cooks in the kitchen, get up out of the kitchen if you don't have to be in there,' is a great reminder. So let somebody else make the turkey. Right. For this Thanksgiving. Right. It doesn't always need to be the same person. Delegate. Play your position. You can delegate. Look, I'm on deviled egg duty.

Kere Thomas: 00:35:05

Just tell me when. And if you need me to pivot to collard greens, I will do that. Right. But for right now, I know how to play my position. And I think that's an example that we learn from watching what Wu-Tang Clan does too. 100%. Great lesson. They know how to play their position. Everybody has a talent. Everybody has a different skill. Just like we talked about earlier, they have a different style, but it all kind of pulls together for the benefit of the team. Number eight, power of the collective.

Kere Thomas: 00:35:41

That means that they have diverse perspectives, diverse experiences that also bring them together. Yeah.

Liz Nolley: 00:35:51

Yeah, that's the whole...

Liz Nolley: 00:35:54

We don't want to get canceled. But the whole DEI argument that's going on right now, diversity means a lot of things to a lot of people. And it's very powerful. One of the beautiful things about Wu-Tang Clan is that they are a diverse group of brothers. Diverse in their rap styles, their personal styles, their skill sets, like you said, their vocal intonations, their flow, everything.

Liz Nolley: 00:36:24

And we're the same way. And when you put together a team, a diverse team, now your whole team could look like you, but there's a whole lot of diversity within that. Like, I just look at us. As much as we have in common, we're very different in a lot of different ways. I'm loud, you're laid back. I'm all over the place, you're cool and laid back. We see the theme developing here. But, you know, you need those, you need a diverse, you need diversity in terms of skill set.

Liz Nolley: 00:36:57

Background, training, strengths, perspectives, because, you know, three people can look at the same thing and see three different things. So diversity isn't about quotas and skin color and genders and race and all of that. There's a place for that. But what we learned from Wu-Tang Clan that we can take into our corporate journeys is that for any project that you're working on, you need a diverse set of skills, talents, and perspectives. In order to really win.

Kere Thomas: 00:37:33

Exactly.

Kere Thomas: 00:37:35

Number nine.

Liz Nolley: 00:37:37

I like this one.

Kere Thomas: 00:37:40

Side hustles can fit with the main hustle. So you can have your main hustle, that's your nine to five, but there's nothing that says you can't have a five to nine.

Kere Thomas: 00:37:52

That's right. But make sure it starts at five. Don't get yourself fired from that nine to five until that five to nine takes off.

Kere Thomas: 00:37:59

Make sure you leave the office before you do your... Don't get caught at that other job doing that second job. That's right. But like, think about Wu-Tang. So this is what I love about them too. They all had their main job, which was Wu-Tang Clan, but then they leveraged their success to go out and do other things that they wanted to do. Not even the same thing. Yeah, Meth went out and became... Method Man went out and became an actor.

Liz Nolley: 00:38:30

Yes, he did.

Kere Thomas: 00:38:32

Yes, he did. Right? But then another one became... Went out and started doing, RZA started doing, was it RZA or was it GZA? Started doing movie soundtracks.

Liz Nolley: 00:38:44

Yeah. I want to say RZA did like, he did a Kung Fu movie, like a real Kung Fu movie. He did a Kung Fu movie. And it was good. That's it. That's it. Right. And they all started doing their own side projects.

Kere Thomas: 00:38:56

One of them, I think it's Raekwon that has like a food company.

Kere Thomas: 00:39:02

Or one of them has like a vegan food thing too.

Kere Thomas: 00:39:07

And they started writing, I'm going to say GZA or RZA started. Producing and writing for other artists and doing other things.

Kere Thomas: 00:39:14

So that became like a big deal to have one of them producing your music. So I just think like people often think like I can't work on what is going to sustain me long term. Because I have my nine to five. Now I complain about this daily because I don't have a nine to five right now, but I used to have one.

Kere Thomas: 00:39:40

And if I think about going back into corporate America, it's not something that I'm excited to do because I love my side hustle. And I'm always like, 'Oh, I wouldn't have time for my side hustle. I don't want to, you know, that kind of thing. It's an excuse just because I don't want to go back to corporate America.' But if you are in corporate America and you're thinking about the career move, you know, take a look at our friends.

Kere Thomas: 00:40:08

Wu-Tang Clan, and you will see that you can continue to have that permanent hustle, but then you can also support that side hustle, whatever that passion might be.

Liz Nolley: 00:40:18

A hundred percent. It doesn't have to be an or conversation. It can be an and conversation.

Kere Thomas: 00:40:24

Right. And then there's number 10, which is it's okay to be multi-passionate.

Kere Thomas: 00:40:33

And follow your passions. So sort of a difference between having a side hustle, following your passions, being multi-passionate could mean that you can do two or three different tracks in your work. It doesn't always have to be focused on one thing. You know, you can be financed today and tomorrow you could be running community partnerships because you have a love of reaching out to the community. And that's... a work that you want to build or career that you want to build.

Liz Nolley: 00:41:12

I love this one because I get a lot of inspiration from Wu-Tang Clan, especially like Method Man and watching him do multiple things because I find... as a multi-passionate professional myself, it tripped me up earlier in my career before I started working with a coach who could help me sort of make sense of it all as an and conversation, not an or conversation. You know, because by contrast, like I look at my brother.

Liz Nolley: 00:41:43

He was a psych major, got an internship working as a psychologist, and he's been doing that ever since. And I used to think, oh, my God, I'm failing miserably. I'm falling behind because I haven't figured out this. I like that. I like the other thing. I like this. Like, you know. It's like the dog in up squirrel, like, you know, like everything, like I was like all over the place. And I was like, how come I haven't figured it all out like he has, you know? And for a lot of us as multi-passionate people. You know, the pathway isn't a straight line. Exactly. It's like this. And I work with a lot of women in my coaching practice. And the very first thing that we do is like a personality assessment. Through that whole kind of self-reflection process, we call it out and we give ourselves permission to be multi-passionate. Like, now that doesn't mean you quit your job tomorrow and join the circus and... do all these things right— but there's a way to leverage being multi-passionate as a superpower so you can tap into that superpower, manage it, and not have it manage you.

Kere Thomas: 00:42:52

Exactly.

Kere Thomas: 00:42:55

I am multi-passionate in my career choices right now. I'm doing like five different things, but I think it's okay because it's satisfying.

Kere Thomas: 00:43:08

And that's the key thing, right? Yeah. Wu-Tang has taken the opportunity to expand their passions because they have the ability to do that right now, right? But we have that ability too. It may not always be financial. There's ways that you can address what your alternate passions are. So like, I believe strongly in community service. And that is a big thing that I get from being a part of my sorority. So I can... I can lean into that passion that I have about community support. And that doesn't take away from me having a full-time job. You know what I'm saying? So I think that's another example that we can learn from them.

Liz Nolley: 00:43:56

I love that. Thank you, Wu-Tang Clan.

Kere Thomas: 00:44:02

I'm sure there are more examples, but I just wanted to give 10 good ones. I love this. From teamwork by Wu-Tang Clan.

Kere Thomas: 00:44:08

And ask the audience if they have any other ways that they see how teamwork... How we can exemplify that from their pop culture lives, Wu-Tang or anyone else, to share with us.

Liz Nolley: 00:44:23

I love that. Thank you, Kere. Thank you, Wu-Tang Clan. And if you want to send some merch, you know, hit me up, inbox me, whatever. I mean, you know, no pressure.

Liz Nolley: 00:44:33

Hey, if you don't ask, you don't get. So anyway, but that's our top 10.

Kere Thomas: 00:44:39

I would like a new woo sweatshirt.

Liz Nolley: 00:44:42

Okay. Matching twinsies. Anyway, thank you for that awesome top 10. Love it. Love it.