S1E4: The Corporate Canary Episode
In this powerful and relatable episode of Just Us with Kere & Liz, the hosts dive deep into what it truly feels like to be a Black woman navigating today’s volatile corporate landscape. Liz opens by reflecting on her decades as a “corporate Jackie Robinson”—often the first and the only Black woman in executive spaces—sharing the unspoken rules and real-life lessons she created her coaching practice to pass down.
The featured Readout Letter comes from “Stressed Out Corporate Canary,” a Black woman manager worried about looming layoffs and the disappearing presence of Black women in senior leadership. Kere and Liz break down the meaning behind being a “canary in the coal mine,” tackle myths around job security, and offer grounding, actionable advice: detach emotion from corporate decisions, document everything, build community, and create your “freedom fund” to layoff-proof your life.
Then, the duo turns to their fan-favorite segment: Boss It or Toss It, rating how Black corporate professionals are portrayed across movies and TV. From Boomerang and The Cosby Show to Living Single, Insecure, Empire, Black-ish, Girlfriends, and Abbott Elementary, they unpack what Hollywood gets right—and very wrong—about Black leadership, ambition, style, and everyday office culture.
Filled with humor, honesty, cultural callouts, and coaching gems you’ll want to write down, this episode reminds listeners that while the corporate world may shake, Black women have always found a way to “make a dollar out of 15 cents.” And on Just Us, no one has to navigate it alone.
Transcript
s1E4 audio - Made with Clipchamp.m4a
Liz Nolley:Hey everybody, I'm Liz Nolley.
Kere Thomas:And I'm Kere Thomas.
Liz Nolley:And welcome back to the Just Us podcast with Liz and Kere. A place for black women navigating corporate spaces.
Kere Thomas:So Liz, why do you think a podcast like ours is important?
Liz Nolley:So in my journey as a C-level advisor to corporate executives for the last 30 plus years, I have often been the corporate Jackie Robinson. meaning the first and the only person who looks like me in the room. And however y'all interpret that, you're probably right.
And what I found was that being in these rare spaces, I've learned a lot of secrets to success that you don't learn in school, you don't learn in certificate programs. Most of us, like I'm a first-generation corporate professional in my entire family, right, don't learn at home. But other people are two, three, four generations of company A, B, or C. And I'm talking major like Fortune 500, 100, Fortune 50 companies, right? I created my coaching practice to share what I've picked up that they didn't realize they were putting down, okay, to level the playing field. And I'm on a mission to share what I've learned being in spaces where most of us are not. So that... We can help other people climb that ladder.
Kere Thomas:Yeah. So we're here to pass the code, so to speak.
Liz Nolley:Exactly. And this podcast is an extension of that mission.
Kere Thomas:Yeah. I think. Before we get into it, there is one thing I want to add to that, too, because I don't want it to sound like we're out here to tell you how to change or sell out, dare I say. We're here to explain how it works in our experiences.
Liz Nolley:Absolutely pull back. It's all about pulling back the curtain. And ironically, that's a limiting belief that's just not true. Yeah. Like corporate leaders want you to be your authentic, full, whole self because that's who they are when they come to work. Right. Right. And the more. You mute your voice and the more you're not honoring your personal brand and your identity, the less successful you're going to be. There's just... It's a way to bring your whole self to work every day in corporate settings in a way that's situationally appropriate.
That's lesson number one: right is that you can be yourself and brand yourself in a way that's authentic to you and still win in business.
Kere Thomas:All right, well let's let's crack some codes today.
Liz Nolley:Okay, so today we're going to do a readout.
Yeah. And then we're gonna close the show with our favorite segment.
Kere Thomas:Boss it or toss it. Hey, hey, hey.
Liz Nolley:So let's get into the readout. And I'm going to invite... our listeners to submit their letters as well or even come on the show if you want to get coached live on the air. Just go to lizthepurposecoach.com/slash/podcast. There's a short form you fill it out, and who knows— the next letter that we read could be yours.
Okay, so let's get in today's readout letter. It says, 'Dear Liz and Kerry, for the last eight years, I've been working as a manager in corporate America. Lately, I'm starting to feel like change is coming and not in a good way.
And with all the tariffs and federal budget cuts, I've seen my friends and family members lose jobs that we used to think were good government jobs offering job security. I'm going to pause right there.
Kere Thomas:Please do.
Liz Nolley:In corporate America, there is no such thing as job security. They can fire the CEO just as quickly as they can fire anybody else up in the corporation.
Kere Thomas:I've been laid off at four different levels. It keeps happening. But no, seriously, it doesn't matter where you are.
Liz Nolley:It's not so unusual. No, it's not so unusual. So one of the limiting beliefs that we have to let go of is. is this myth around job security, right? And what's really interesting about these times and days that we're living in is that those good, stable federal jobs aren't so stable. Absolutely not. And I think they are getting a dose of what we in corporate have always known— that the company is going to do what the company needs to do. Right. And so if you get laid off, it's business. It's not personal.
Kere Thomas:Right.
Liz Nolley:So, okay. So... The letter goes on. It says, and now this trend is starting to hit closer to home. OK, my company has been talking about, quote, reorganizing to right size to meet the needs of a changing marketplace.
Kere Thomas: Kere Thomas:So many times at different companies.
Liz Nolley:The corporate speak is alive, well, and so real.
I may have even written that memo once or twice in my career as a corporate communications professional.
Kere Thomas:I can think of an example.
Liz Nolley:You know what I mean? So anyway, so the letter writer goes on to say, 'translation, layoffs are coming.' Yes, my love, you are absolutely right. And while I understand. that's how corporate America works. What's really keeping me up at night is who is being impacted. When I look at the names on the chopping block, it's clear that black women and senior management are being hit the hardest. The few of us who have made it to the top. are either being laid off, pushed out, or leaving on their own terms to start businesses or do something else.
Kere Thomas:My ministry.
Liz Nolley:The result, leadership is looking less and less like me, and the few black women left seem to have one foot out the door. It's like we're disappearing one by one.
Kere Thomas:That is interesting. Because that is exactly my experience and why I'm no longer in corporate America.
Liz Nolley:Yeah, I mean, the statistics are like... I think there was like, I want to say it was a Wall Street Journal article or something that said something incredible. Like over in a four-month period earlier this year, over 300,000 black women were exited.
Kere Thomas:Right. Not by their own.
Liz Nolley:But when you look on the other side. The fastest growing demographic of entrepreneurs is black American women.
Kere Thomas:Because we are choosing not to return to the chaos that... is currently corporate America. Now, don't get me wrong. People want jobs. People want secure jobs. But that's just not... a consistency these days. So I can understand why we're taking it in our own hands to create our own opportunities.
Liz Nolley:I frame that this way in my own experience. And it's financial stability that I want, not job security. Right. Right. And that was the impetus for my own entrepreneurial journey. I used to think. When I was working, you know, commuting two and a half hours to get to work, working 12 hours, and then commuting another two and a half hours to get home. I was like, man, if I can work this hard for somebody else, what would happen? If I put in the same level of effort into something of my own.
Kere Thomas:Exactly.
Liz Nolley:So, all right, back to the letter. So she says that. When I brought this up, oh, this is really interesting. She says, when I brought this up to a seasoned colleague, another black woman, she wasn't surprised at all. In fact, she told me, 'Well, what did you expect? We're always the canary in the coal mine when it comes to these things. Just keep your head down, stay off the radar, and do your work.'
Kere Thomas:I have thoughts, but I'm going to hold on to them until we get through the letter.
Liz Nolley:Okay, hold those thoughts. Her words hit me hard. I mean, I know the world we live in, but hearing her say it so plainly has me shook. What exactly does she mean by canary in the coal mine? And if she's right, what am I supposed to do about it? I've got bills to pay and I need this job, but I can't help feeling like I'm walking on thin ice. Signed, stressed out corporate canary, go.
Kere Thomas:Well, I agree with her on the canary in the coal mine. I myself have... been connected to that reference. on at least two occasions in my work as a corporate professional. I've been called the canary in the coal mine because I called out what was happening in a toxic situation, a toxic environment.
And I've been called the canary in the coal mine because... I could see what was coming and I tried to let my people know. Prepare yourself because this is what's happening. Right. Um, but I do not agree with... keeping your head down and staying off the radar.
I think that that is an outdated mindset. To me. Some people might say, but I need this job. But I don't think that it matters whether you keep your head down.
Or you stay off the radar and not like they're going to come for you. They're going to come for you.
Liz Nolley:Yeah, I mean, I've said it before on this podcast and in other places. A layoff is the least personal thing that a company does. It's a pen stroke. It's often a numeric decision. We got to cut X of dollars. Okay, here are the people at this salary, blah, blah, blah, blah, or whatever the case may be, right? Like the people making those decisions is a business decision, yeah, right.
Kere Thomas:I think we should explain the reference, 'canary in the coal mine,' though. Well, so it's a coal mine reference, right? So back in the day when the workers used to go down into the coal mines, they would take a canary and... If the canary, if something happened to the canary, that would let the workers know that there were, like, you know, gas down there that you could then die from inhaling, or, you know, it was like a dangerous environment, basically. So if the canary passes away or start having some sort of adverse reaction to the environment, then the miners knew they had to get out of there. Right, exactly.
Kere Thomas:That's what it means.
Liz Nolley:Exactly. Thank you, Carrie.
Kere Thomas:You're very welcome.
Liz Nolley:You described that beautifully. I wish I had sent Tweety Bird down in that coal mine, but that's a whole other... We're not talking politics. We're not talking politics today. Okay, okay, okay.
Kere Thomas:Because I was about to get into it.
Liz Nolley:That's another show. We'll save that one for another show.
Kere Thomas:So what advice do we give our good sis here?
Liz Nolley:So here's the thing. This article brings up so many thoughts for me. It reminds me of there's a clip of Trevor Noah going around the Internet where he says, I wrote it down because I'm. I wanted to quote him accurately on the program. He says people will always be shocked. They'll always be like, why do black women turn out the way that they do in America? Why do they vote the way that they do? Yeah, it's because.
They know what happens if things don't go the way they should. They cannot afford to fuck around and find out.
And he goes on to say, 'I tell you now, do yourself a favor. If you truly want to know what to do or how to do it or maybe the best way to do it or the most equitable way, talk to black women. So, you know, I talked to a lot of people who are like freaked out by, you know, like just today in America. And I was like, well, you know... It's not that I'm not upset about it. But it's like your shirt says, go send somebody else to go do it. Because we've seen this movie before. Right. Mama, my dear grandma, mom, auntie. taught us how to make a dollar out of 15 cents.' We're going to be all right because we always are. We've always figured it out. Yeah. Right. So that energy, I think. In our corporate journeys, when these things seem so big and insurmountable, when we're hearing things like, 'Well, at least you have a job,' like our bosses are telling us. telling us that we don't have to be shuck and jive grateful for a job. Like we're thankful, like thanks to Him for giving us the job or whoever, whatever, you know. Power in the higher power in the universe. You recognize, like, that's fine, but that's where it stops. You're not beholding to that boss. Like, he's not giving you that job out of charity. He's paying you for the contribution to the bottom line that you're making.
Kere Thomas:Right. And there's no loyalty to you, because again, like you said, it's a pin stroke.
Liz Nolley:Exactly. And it's transactional, like your day job is a transaction. You come in, you perform certain duties and responsibilities, and you get a check, right? Or whatever. So I think.
What's interesting in... when I think of our role as the corporate canaries in the coal mine is that everybody wants to be like a black woman. People get BBLs to...
Kere Thomas:To look like one.
Liz Nolley:This was natural. Thanks, Mom and Dad. But I'm just saying, like, people... Thank you. Darken their skin. They wear wigs and they change their hair to look like us. They imitate what they think— girl or whatever this is, I don't even know. We don't even do that, but people think we do. So they imitate it and appropriate it. Yeah, do you know what I mean? Like, they cosplay as my black women and things of that nature. So people want to be like us. They want to wear their hair in cornrows. They want to do all these things like us. But they don't necessarily always value us.
Kere Thomas:I have something to say. Because what you said is one of the things that triggers me the most. They do. Like, the most... Loved? But then disregarded person in this country, at least, is the black woman and I don't, I don't even. You know, because I have friends of all different makes and models. And it always kills me when they want to love on us, but then question why we may feel a certain way about things.
Liz Nolley:Or question our ability to be in the space that we're in. Right. You go to Harvard, have law degrees, top of your class, and they still don't understand. They still call you a DEI hire when you're in the Supreme Court.
Kere Thomas:Right. Or feel like they're entitled to be in our spaces.
Liz Nolley
::That part. That part. And some of y'all keep inviting them to the cookout. So knock it off. But I digress.
Kere Thomas:We're going to have a separate conversation about that. Top 10 about why I don't. I am not going to the cookout. Okay. All right.
Liz Nolley:Say less. But, you know, the corporate gaslight game is so strong because they will say, 'You go ask.' You go ask. You speak up for the team. You go test the water's carry and everything like that. No, you go do it. You demonstrate the managerial courage.
And, you know, and then They don't listen to you. Right. Or they give you 100 reasons why what you're asking can't be done or whatever the case may be. And then when it doesn't work out. They want to blame you. Well, how did you let that happen?
Corporate gaslight game is so real, yeah, right. So, um, so I said, just to say okay. What can we do about it? Because, you know, we could go on for days like talking about the problem. But my corporate training tells me never bring up a problem unless you've got a solution. So, you know, there's no silver bullet here. There isn't. But what I would tell our scared corporate, our concerned corporate canary, our stressed out corporate canary. I would tell her to, first of all. Don't respond to what's happening emotionally.
And I know that's easier said than done, because we're all people at work. We're whole beings when we go to work. But just remember.
Nothing that's happening there is personal. It's all about business, man, right? So try not to respond emotionally. Try to keep it focused on processes, not people, because that helps to depersonalize and de-escalate the emotional undertones of what you're saying. Focus on processes, not people.
Kere Thomas:Can I get emotional at home, though? When I walk in my apartment, can I say... These are just a few examples.
Liz Nolley:The minute you leave that building.
Kere Thomas:You get in your car, you'd be like.
Liz Nolley:And you are out of car distance from the door. Do whatever you want to. I'm just saying at work. But that's why you need your tribe. That's why you need your people. Right. That's why you need.
Kere Thomas:That's what I was going to say. Call your best girlfriend. Let me tell you what happened today.
Liz Nolley:Exactly. Or call us. Message us. Record a video message. Come on the show.
Kere Thomas:Come join Just Us.
Liz Nolley:Come on the show and let's talk about it. So that's number one. Number two, document, document, document. You've got to see cy your a at all times like so that you can have you can make your own case and control your own now narrative because when people come questioning, oh well you know, blah blah blah, because they do question who you know. There is a little art to the science of laying people off, so they do. You know, they will test the waters around, you know, should this person stay or should this person go? So you want to document your successes every time you get a win. Something big for somebody and they say, 'Oh great job.' Say you know what, would you mind sending my boss a note saying that yes and copying whoever needs to be copied. Right. Put it on paper. And if something feels sideways, document that too. You've got to cy your a in corporate settings, right? And then the last thing I would say is, and this is something, is to make your problem somebody else's.
Kere Thomas:Yes. Don't sit in silence.
Liz Nolley:No. You can't be out on a limb like a Teena Marie record when stuff is getting crazy at work. You need to bring other people along. Because the minute my problem becomes somebody else's problem, now we're all vested in finding the right solution together. So do not suffer silently.
Kere Thomas:No. It's a we all need to figure this out, not that I need to figure this out.
Liz Nolley:Yeah, yeah, and you know. And ultimately, it's about you know, practice mindfulness meditation, protect your peace, right? And leave work at work. Yeah.
Kere Thomas:That is one that I tell my friends a lot. Like? I have a couple of friends who are super driven corporate professionals. It's like, come time to do their performance plan. They're on it. They're strategizing about the next level. And all of that is great. But when the corporate culture is crumbling around you, none of that really matters.
Liz Nolley:And even when it's not, you have to, a sorority sister of ours in my chapter said this, and it stopped me in my tracks. She said, 'A good job, even the best job, will never love you back.' No. She got bars. But I'm just saying, but she's right. She's right. So you give the job what you need to give it to get to maintain your half of that transactional relationship. And then you go like that. You work a job. You have to have the job needs to serve you in your life. You don't build your life around a job.
Kere Thomas:I used to say, and I still believe this, even as an entrepreneur, I work to live. I do not live to work.
Liz Nolley:Amen. Wait. One more for today. Well, I think that was this worthy. It was because I've been there too. I've been there too. So any other advice for our stressed out canary in the coal mine?
Kere Thomas:No, I would reiterate all the stuff that you said. You know, protect yourself, protect your peace. Have your own strategy, make moves that are right for you. Leave work at work.
Liz Nolley:And I would say secure the bag. One of the best self-care things that you can do for yourself to lay off proof your life is to tithe at work. Right. Put 10% of your check away for you. That's it. Not for him. Not for the babies. Not for the dog. Not for the whatever. For you. Have your freedom fund. Have that freedom fund somewhere. Put at least 10% of every paycheck that you bring home, every dollar, everything that you make. Sock it away because when corporate... Corporate America, do what it does, you're going to be all right, because the thing that we as black women fear the most is some financial instability or insecurity, right?
Kere Thomas:Listen, as an entrepreneur, that is my existence from day to day. But you didn't use these words, but the exit strategy is key. It's the exit strategy.
Liz Nolley:And you've got to have a freedom fund to support that.
Kere Thomas:Because the exit strategy could be... proactive or reactive. And it could be planned or unplanned. So just prepare for when it happens.
Liz Nolley:You got to have your financial go bag ready.] I watch a lot of gangster movies.
Kere Thomas:But you also.
Liz Nolley:Oh, oh, oh, I got a mic drop. Go Liz. Okay. Game blouses. Game blouses. Sorry, not sorry. So that's our readout for today. Again, if you want your letter read, please hit us up at livethepurposecoach.com/podcast and submit your letter as well. So thank you, Corporate Canary, for your letter. We appreciate you. We're here for you, sis, if you need anything.
Kere Thomas
::Let us know if that advice resonated with you also.
Liz Nolley:If you're watching, drop your additional advice into the into the comments into the chat so you never know who you can help. That's what this is about— building a community that can support each other. Okay. Yeah.
Kere Thomas:Purposeful coach. Let’s do my favorite segments! Are we going to boss it? Oh, we're going to throw up it.
Liz Nolley:I may have to do some tossing just because it's fun to toss.
Kere Thomas:It is fun to toss. I mean, like, let's be real about some of these things, too. Like, you know. We're always real. We're always real. So, in the spirit of... Corporate leadership, and our professions. Let's do... Depictions of Black Corporate Professionals in Entertainment.
Liz Nolley:Let me get my cards ready.
Kere Thomas:You ready? Wait. Are you ready? Let's do it. Um... Okay, so... puts together a good list. Okay. So let's see what you think about this. Okay.
Kere Thomas:You remember the movie Boomerang?
Liz Nolley:Boss it.
Kere Thomas:I didn't even. I know, but Boss it.
Liz Nolley:Stranger.
Kere Thomas:For all the youngins out there.
Kere Thomas:In this movie starring Eddie Murphy. And Stranger, Grace Jones. Grace Jones was Stranger in the movie. It is about a bunch of young black professionals in marketing, actually. And Eddie was one of them. And also in this movie was Martin Lawrence. Yeah. Um... John with the spoon. R. I. P.
Liz Nolley:Coordinate. Coordinate. That's classic.
Kere Thomas:He played Eddie's father. I played David Allen Gretel's father. How can I forget about David Allen Greer? So in this movie, um, the depiction I might say that once or twice before we get on to the next one, so the depictions of these corporate professionals, it showed them being... You know, having money, being fashionable, living well, hanging out, you know, being aspiring.
So I was going to ask if you were bossing or tossing, but I think we already know the answer. Now.
Liz Nolley:Boss it! I know that shocks you, but Boss It. I love this movie. Love it, love it, love it. One of Eddie Murphy's best movies. Yeah. Right. For all the reasons that you just said. Yeah. Because when I look at movies. I rarely see accurate depictions of a black corporate experience. Yeah. Rarely. Now, this one was Hollywood.
Hollywooder eyes, but there was so much that was real about this. But the thing— one of the things that I loved about it was even down to the Chris Rock character, Marcus, had a life at home, so you got a sense of his friends and his people. He had his tribe at home, so you could see that, right? And then he had clients.
From Stranger and Lady Eloise. Shout out to the late, great Eartha Kitt. And shout out to Auntie in my head, the legendary Grace Jones. And the casting and all of that.
Even Chris Rock's character who was the guy in the mail room? Like, there was— you talk about representation on representation on representation, plus shout out to Chris Rock, who had one of the best lines in cinematic history. First the fat boys break up, now this. Google it, youngins, Google it. Like, you know, like. Boss it, boss it, boss it, boss it, boss it all the way. I'm
Kere Thomas: Kere Thomas:Okay, so... This look.
Kere Thomas:I'm just gonna throw it out there. Okay. The Cosby Show.
Liz Nolley:I'm going to boss the Cosby show. I'm going to boss it. Because, shout out to Boomerang. Boomerang was sort of the cinematic equivalent of The Cosby Show when it comes to corporate professional representation. And I realized it was about Cliff and Claire, power couple, and, you know, Dr. Lawyer. Not exactly corporate. But we need to see that, though. I mean...
Kere Thomas:Law firms and hospitals are the biggest corporations. So if you think about it, absolutely.
Liz Nolley:But we can have whole lives. And I've always said this. I always identified more with the challenges and the struggles and the ups and the downs of the Huxtables than I ever did with the Evanses. Absolutely. Because I saw myself there, not with James and Florida. Shout out to them. Right. That wasn't my experience...
Kere Thomas:That's a time and place and people have that experience, but people also had this experience to a degree. And I think it's fair that we had. Both of those depictions. I loved Claire and Cliff.
Liz Nolley:Me too. I never saw my family on TV until I watched. The Huxtables. Yeah. And I think that was like. Doctors and lawyers, but both HBCU graduates. First generation, although Cliff and Clara were second generation. But that was dope.
Kere Thomas:People needed to see that. So next up. Any? Tyler. Perry. movie.
Liz Nolley:I'm going to run out of cards in a minute.
Kere Thomas:I know. I know your sentiment.
Liz Nolley:You know I have this love-hate relationship with Mr. Perry. I mean... T
Kere Thomas:The movies and TV shows are good for... They're good for something.
Liz Nolley:They're good for tossing it. That was my only point.
Kere Thomas:I think someone in the background, someone in the cheap seats has something to say.
Liz Nolley:Tyler Perry, if you want to come and produce the Just Us podcast at your studio in Atlanta, I'm here for it, King. I'm here for it, King. Come on, King.
Kere Thomas:Let me say this. I think that it is good for entertainment purposes. And sometimes it's fun to make fun of ourselves. We do it. So there is a place for Tyler Perry in his movies. Yeah, absolutely. I am not inclined to dive into his depictions of corporate professionals in those movies.
Liz Nolley:That's just wait, wait, wait— time out for some black conversation.
Kere Thomas:Mm-hmm.
Liz Nolley:That's all I'm going to say. Well, that's not all I'm gonna say.
Kere Thomas:What else are you going to say, Liz?
Liz Nolley:First of all, you know this and I'm gonna share it with everybody else. I have a love-hate relationship with Tyler Perry. I think the man is a business genius. Shout out to him. We need 100 million more like him— telling stories and stuff like that. But he's so one-note in his depiction of us. And that note is so wildly inaccurate that I take offense to it because there aren't that many of us in corporate America, black women in corporate America. And we can't always be the villain to his beat down, downtrodden, you know struggling on the come up black woman that he loves to make as his heroic archetype.
We can’t always be the villain to her right, you know what I mean? And that part is nails on the chalkboard to my soul and the few depictions in his movies. I mean, it's a it's a sad day in cinematic history when legends like Angela Bassett and Felicia Rashad can only get work in a Tyler Perry production, but, you know, and it's an even sadder day when somebody with his power influence and the power of the camera, power of the mic can't depict us.
Kere Thomas:He has not evolved, in my opinion.
Liz Nolley:And it's his right. That's his mama, and he's playing true to her and all this kind of stuff.
Kere Thomas:And don't get me wrong, if you were to ask me, is Medea a national black treasure? I would say yes. Yes, because that is, we can relate.
Liz Nolley:I'll give you iconic.
Kere Thomas:Like that's that one character. One character. But the consistency of the main characters and the tropes that he replays over and over again to me is a toss it.
Liz Nolley:And she's always depicted. We're always the antagonist, as black corporate female types are always the antagonist. Right. I don't like it. Sorry. Sorry. I'm back.
Kere Thomas:I got another one for you. Okay. Any Steve Harvey movie.
Liz Nolley:Kere.
Kere Thomas:Can you name a Steve Harvey? I'm going to say this. So... Um... What's the name of that book? Think like a man. Think like a man. So the movie itself was funny. But. What it is depicting of us— as professional people. I did not agree with.
Liz Nolley:Time for some more black conversation.
Kere Thomas:Yeah, it's pretty much in line with what we see with Tyler Perry.
Liz Nolley:A hundred percent. I mean, Two words, Michael Ealy. Shout out to him. Loved him in the light. Rock on, brother. But other than that, like, I will only give Steve Harvey.
Who was the least funniest of the darn Kings of Comedy. Yeah, I said it. He was. Shout out to Bernie Mac.
Kere Thomas:Least funniest.
Liz Nolley:All day.
Kere Thomas:Bernie Mac all day.
Liz Nolley:I will give him a pass on one character, and no, two characters, but one corporate woman character that he got right. Tell me. Boss Lady on the Steve Harvey Show. R. Greer. Oh, Regina. R. Greer, boss lady. Heck yeah. Heck to the yeah, the principal. Heck to the yeah. I mean, she's like... Now, I'm also boss of Levita Alize Jenkins all day. You have to. All day. But, you know, but Levita wasn't like she was an administrator support role, not necessarily Corbin, but he did get R. Greer correct. But in those... But in his movies, like... Chicks, like, in skin-tight outfits with eight-inch red-bottom shoes, you know, dating broke-ass jokes.
Kere Thomas:Let it out, girl. Let it out. I will. I just want to quote my new edition back on. I just want to quote my favorite line from a Steve Harvey movie, which was 'Think like a man.'
Miss Johnson, I'm ready for the tour.
Shout out to Kevin Hart.
Liz Nolley:No such shout outs. No such shout out. Delete that. It was funny. Delete that, Amir.
Amir, delete that.
Kere Thomas:Moving on. Yes. Empire. we talk about Lucius and Cookie Lion. Yeah. And Lion Records, Lion Enterprises, whatever you want to call it. What you think?
Liz Nolley
::Oh, so... I'm a boss empire, the first three seasons maybe—I don't know how many seasons there were— but the last two, I wasn't feeling. But like, when Empire came out, like, I'm a—I'm a boss—I'm a boss because I love Lucius in the early years before it got really weird with him and and Boo Boo Kitty and all this other kind of stuff. But like, in the early years of Empire, boss all the way. It was wonderful to see us in a hip hop, authentic hip hop, R &B, you know, kind of a situation. I don't like Lee Daniels. I'm gonna just say that. But I'm not a I'm not a Lee Daniels fan. Clutch The Invisible Pearls. I'm not a Lee Daniels fan, but I did like. Although it was wildly unrealistic and all of this kind of stuff, but it was just nice to see some different level representation of us on the screen. So I'm a boss. I'm a boss empire, the early seasons.
Kere Thomas:Inaccurate, but also, like... These people reportedly made their money off of the backs of their own community. So I cannot booth that. Okay. I'm sorry.
Liz Nolley:I feel you. I feel you.
Kere Thomas:I'm talking about them like they're real people.
Liz Nolley:I feel you. I feel you. Shout out to Big Red Records and that whole genre of representation.
Kere Thomas:You film me.
Liz Nolle:There's a kernel of reality underneath all of that. But Terrence Howard. He carried that show the first couple of years. And Cookie's little ratchet behind was right there.
Kere Thomas:As he did in... And what's the name of that movie? Hustle and Flow. No, no, no. The movie with the fellas, the best man. Oh, the best man.
Now that I'm a boss.
Liz Nolley:Yeah, all day. All day. All day. All day.
Kere Thomas:Okay. What we got next? Let's see. Oh.
Kere Thomas:Living single.
Liz Nolley:We are living. Single—wait, how'd the girl go in the in a 90s kind of world? I'm glad I got my girl. You got me dancing. I got a bad back. I mean, you know. I'm bossing, bossing, bossing. I'm a boss living single all day. Kadijah James, Flavor Magazine. She started her own magazine. Shout out to Maxine the Maverick. Shaw like shout out yes lawyer on the planet yes yes yes yes and Regine let's not forget her wait the episode where she's where they go to the club and she's flipping.
Kere Thomas:There was something about those girls that resonated with every person who was a young black professional of the night.
Liz Nolley:100%. When you talk about seeing yourself on screen, there's the episode where the four of them go to the club because Regine's friend is DJing. Yes. And then Kyle and them keep trying to get in, but they keep getting kicked out and everything like that. Like, that was my lived experience. I was like, oh, my God. I have done everything in that I've been chased around the bar by Goldie 2 and given a fake name and the whole nine. I've been Shaquan.
Kere Thomas:Absolutely. We learned our life lessons about becoming an adult from that show.
Liz Nolley:That was so real. I have done everything that was in that episode. It's my favorite.
Kere Thomas:I love living single. Boss living single all day. All day. So, um... In the same... area as living single, what would you say, Girlfriends?
Liz Nolley:I don't have enough cards to Toss It
Kere Thomas:You got a lot of cars over there.
Liz Nolley:Joan was toxic.
Kere Thomas:Joan was toxic. Which is crazy because one of my least likable characters, but also she played one of my favorite characters.
Liz Nolley:Rainbow.
Kere Thomas:Rainbow, which we talked about in previous episodes.] Yeah, that's one reason why I love her.
Liz Nolley:Yeah, but. Hate it. Like, remember Living Color? Hate it. Yeah, I said it. Two snaps down. I said it.
Kere Thomas:Joan was toxic. Her friends.
Liz Nolley:Tony was toxic.
SPEAKER_0
[: Kere Thomas:By the end, her come-up was like, so in in the same way that you loved, like, maybe the first couple of seasons of Empire. Empire that's how I feel about girlfriends. Okay. Initially it was great to see these professional women, but then it's like, the relationship amongst them, they started to be jealous. They started to be hateful. I just did not love that part of Girlfriend. At all.
Liz Nolley:I think that's a testament to... who's behind the camera and who's in the writing room. Right. Because Living Single, Yvette Lee Bowser, Yvette Lee, later Yvette Lee Bowser, like... Totally different product on the screen. So good that friends had to steal it.
And appropriate it and gaslight the world into thinking that they invented the. Formula, but I digress. Right. That's another story. But, you know, but girlfriends, you know, you've got Frazier, you know, Frazier Crane behind it. I mean, you know, good for him giving black women work, but. Yeah.
Kere Thomas:Noot that I'm speaking for Kelsey Grammar, but it was one of those things where I'm just putting my name on it to say I did it. Either way, there was no flavor in the production. There definitely was not. Um... we kind of mentioned back blackish already, but, um, I want to say, like, we love Rainbow. But in this instance, when we talk about because we talked about her as black TV moms, but.
Kere Thomas:In this instance, we're talking about, like, Dre and his... work as a marketing VP for some agency I forgot what it was called. Um, but in the room with him You have Charlie. Love Charlie. Who, even though he is the comic foil in these shows. Love him.
Liz Nolley:He's my TV spirit animal.
Kere Thomas:He is the goofball in the room. Love him. Love it, love it, love it. But then, when you... Find out he's a brilliant man. He's actually the dean of students at a major university in this universe.
Liz Nolley:Can I just say I love his dynamic with Diane. Yes, absolutely. She's like Charles. Yes. I'm going to boss blackish all day. Growing up on the agency side of the marketing world in my early career, there's so much that resonates. You can relate. That you can relate to. And then Dre's struggle with being, you know, the urban VP versus just a regular VP.
Kere Thomas:And all of that. So many corporate lessons from Black-ish.
Liz Nolley:So relatability. Boss that.
Kere Thomas:So I'm definitely bossing how they depict them. And also, the fact that you know, Dre keeps learning. As a professional, as a parent, and as a human, I just love that show. It was definitely a milestone and I don't think people give it enough credit. So I'mma Boss It.
Liz Nolley:All right. I'm bossing it right there with you for all the reasons what you said.
Kere Thomas:How about... Insecure. Did you watch that show?
Liz Nolley:I did. Don't be mad. Don't be mad. Don't worry. Imma boss it. I know I'm supposed to like it. And I do. It's like sweet potato pie. It's something that I know. Hold up. I know I'm supposed to like it, but I just don't. It's just not my cup of tea.
Kere Thomas:I'm about to push you over there with Kevin and Sage. Yeah, pumpkin pie. You better not be riding for pumpkin pie out here.
Liz Nolley:I am not mad at anybody that likes the show. I actually like some of the depictions of, like, I like the friend group. I basically liked everybody but Issa on the show. I like the whole friend group.
Kere Thomas:Well, yeah, her character was... And that was the whole point. Her character was
Liz Nolley:Awful…terribly acted like outside of the first like episode where she's rapping to herself in the mirror like she gave me nothing um but Let me just say this, like terror, like Tyler Perry Productions, I'm not the target demographic for that show. The people in the target demographic love the show. Yeah. And I'm not mad at it. Shout out to Issa Rae. She's gone on. But I will say she does have Spike Lee disease in that she's much better behind the camera and in the writer's room and being creative than she is. Here's my Issa Rae in every movie impression.
Kere Thomas:I am not bossing it for that reason. I am bossing Insecure.
Liz Nolley:She's a boss, though.
Kere Thomas:She is a boss.
Liz Nolley:When she's not acting.
Kere Thomas:I am bossing Insecure because of the depictions of her circle of girlfriends in the show. Molly, a corporate lawyer, while her love life is ridiculous, she was able to navigate working in a law firm, working under trying circumstances from time to time. Even having a relationship with one of her co-workers.
I do like the way that it was more realistically portrayed. But not just Molly. Their friends, Kelly, even though Kelly, like Charles from Black-ish, was the comic foil.
Um, you find out in the show she's actually like the boss she worked for— like the IRS— she was like this financial wizard. So, you know, credit where credit is due. There were really some positive depictions of corporate professionals with the exception of Issa…
Liz Nolley:Wait wait
Kere Thomas:I'm not I'm not looking at you
Liz Nolley:You don't like my Issa Rae face?
Kere Thomas:No. Scary.
Liz Nolley:I know, right? That's my point exactly. That's why I had to toss it because it's scary to watch her.
Kere Thomas:All right. I have one more.
Liz Nolley:But shout out to her behind the scenes. And she'll always get props from me for that time. I forget whether it was at the Essence Awards. I'm rooting for everybody black. Who do you want to win? I'm rooting for everybody black. So shout out to Issa Rae. Just stop acting. That's all. Be behind the camera. All right, sis. You can pay me for that one later. Go.
Kere Thomas:Huuuuh! One more. Last one. Abbott Elementary. I love this show. Of course I'm gonna boss it.
Liz Nolley:Look Ava. Oh, yeah. Is my corporate spirit animal.
Kere Thomas:Speaking of boss lady principles.
Liz Nolley:When she says, 'not today,' Juvenile.
Kere:It gave you the spirit.
Kere Thomas:Listen, Ava has made herself iconic in the way that she runs that school. She is authentically herself. But she actually gets the job done.
Liz Nolley:And she has a heart. And she's imperfect.
Kere Thomas:She has a real heart. She's imperfect. She is perfectly imperfect.
Liz Nolley:And what I love about her character arc is she starts out as a manager. Thinking just because I'm the boss, I could come in, I could do whatever I wanted to do, whatever. And as she learns— the politics of dealing with the district and all of this kind of stuff. And she learns that she's got to go change from a 'you go' to a 'let's go' to a 'we go'. Go, um, to get the other teachers behind her to save the school, to save her job, to say, 'You know' and all these kinds of things. But she's just funny. She's super funny.
Kere Thomas:One of my favorite episodes is when Uma takes on the dance squad. And they have to like, you know, they have to like get ready to perform. It is so good because you really see the humanity. When you watch that, you find out she might be goofy, but she's no dummy. Right. And that's what I love about that show. So I'm a boss. I'm a boss, Abbott.
Liz Nolley:And she's a sorority girl like us. Right. Yes, she is. And her sorority sister, Tatiana Ali. Shout out to Quinta Brunson for the platform and for giving Jalen Hurst his first acting role.
Shout out to, like, you know, any excuse to see Jalen Hurts on a big screen without his helmet on. Right. Thank you, Mrs. Hurts, our soror for sharing the world with him. Sharing him with the world. But, you know, sorry, I digress.
Kere Thomas:Is this a trend? Because you also shouted out Method Man.
Liz Nolley:I have to shout out the kings. I like my kings. Sorry, not sorry. I like my kings. And I got to give my kings big crowns when crowning is due.
Kere Thomas:That's it. Well, that's all we got for...
Liz Nolley:Oh, I love this Boss It or Toss It.
Kere Thomas:Boss It or Toss It. For this week.
Liz Nolley:Thank you, Kere. That was awesome. That's today's episode. That's all we got for today.
Kere Thomas:Before we go, though, let's remind folks about our merch.
Liz Nolley:The merch shop, the store. You get a mug, a t-shirt, Kere’s t-shirt.
Kere Thomas:Available now on the store.
Liz Nolley:So support us, please. If you like our podcast, like, subscribe, and share, and shop the merch. It's one of the ways to help bring future episodes to you.
Kere Thomas:Thank you, Liz.
Liz Nolley:Thank you, Kere. Cheers.
There's nothing in my glass.
But it looks good on TV.
Kere Thomas:It does. It looks really good.
